Mike Shinoda on Linkin Park’s ‘open’ future, missing Chester Bennington, & music as catharsis
Listen to his most open interview yet
Last updated 6th Jul 2018
Following the recent release of his intensely personal and emotionally raw solo album ‘Post Traumatic’, the ever-genial Mike Shinoda caught up with Kerrang! Radio’s Loz Guest for a wide-ranging chat.
A recurring theme throughout the 20-minute interview was how making music was a cathartic experience in the wake of Chester Bennington’s death in July 2017.
Mike explains: “When Chester passed away I didn’t leave my house for days or weeks. Eventually I realised I was staying away from my home studio – that’s where I write all my stuff and play, y’know even just jam.
“I was not going in there because it just made me uncomfortable to even do it. So, in order to get over that anxiety, I just needed to get in there and sit down and play something and I started jamming a little bit on piano here and there, a little guitar here and there, and the next thing I know I was writing stuff. So, the album became a diary.
“The creation of the album was probably like eight or nine months, no longer than that for sure, so it was really like capturing those moments that were happening as they were happening and going from the worst of it to like a pretty good place.”
Elsewhere, Mike also admitted that the future of Linkin Park was “open” when reflecting upon his post-‘Post Traumatic’ plans.
He said: “When I’m done with (touring ‘Post Traumatic’), if I end up wanting to get together with another artist and just make songs with them, or go and meet up with some of the guys in (Linkin Park) and do that, it’s all open, it’s all on the table.”
Mike also touched upon missing Chester and his unique talent, explaining: “(Chester) had such a magical and like one of a kind instrument, you could give him nearly any kind of reference – maybe not any but so many different singers – he could imitate them and it would sound so close. It could sound just like what you were trying to get him to do.
“We’re writing a song and he sings it and I go ‘it sounds a little too Dave Gahan, give it some more Adele soulfulness’ and he’d do it and you’re like ‘yes! Now it’s like ok I got that but I don’t like it as much, can you do it a bit more Scott Weiland’ and he’d do it. And he could do all these different things and for me as a writer that’s such a powerful pair right. Yeah, so I’ll miss that.”
Listen to the full chat below and also read a transcript of some of the key moments:
On ‘Post Traumatic’ being a very personal record:
“It feels great to have it out in the world. Basically, when Chester passed away I didn’t leave my house for days or weeks, eventually I realised I was staying away from my home studio – that’s where I write all my stuff and play, y’know even just jam. I was not going in there because it just made me uncomfortable to even do it. So, in order to get over that anxiety, I just needed to get in there and sit down and play something and I started jamming a little bit on piano here and there, a little guitar here and there, and the next thing I know I was writing stuff. So the album became a diary. The creation of the album was probably like eight or nine months, no longer than that for sure, so it was really like capturing those moments that were happening as they were happening and going from the worst of it to like a pretty good place.”
On the voicemail messages on ‘Post Traumatic’ opener ‘Place to Start’:
“The reason I did the messages and the footage, the kind of DIY basically phone videos; I did the videos for the first three songs on my phone… I wanted to put people in my shoes in a way that they… I knew there were things that when people thought of my situation or when they would start to listen to the album that they would either be assuming things that weren’t quite right or they would be missing things that were important. One of the things that’s important is that y’know every time I picked up my phone I was getting… it wouldn’t matter what I was thinking of, I always got brought back to what had happened. It was constantly around me. I could go to lunch and it was around me, I could be just walking around anywhere and the songs would start playing, a radio DJ would be talking about it, people would walk up and they would say stuff. So that beginning point was very overwhelming and the songs… the first song on the record (‘Place to Start’) is actually… the basis of the track and some of the lyrics I wrote when were doing ‘One More Light’ so it was actually a couple of years ago and I listened to it when I was starting to make stuff and I went ‘oh, I know how to fix that song. If I change these words and edit it this way, it brings that song up to this moment, it really has the right kind of message.’ So, it just started from there and eventually as days went on I realised I had opportunities to capture some of the things that were happening in my head and in my reality that were unusual and they might be the only time I think those things or feel that way and I wanted to make sure it was in the song.”
On fans relating to Mike’s experience:
“It was one of the things that I hoped it would do for people. That was one of the intentions. I think one of the other intentions was just keep… almost like catch people up on where I was or where I am because I was just realising as I was starting to make the songs that by saying the things I was saying… if it ended up being too personal I could take it out later but if I left it in then it would let people in on the journey that I was taking, that I wasn’t in the place that they assumed I was. If I’d just gone away for a few years and come back with just kind of like a normal, predictable, like whatever a Linkin Park album would be or Fort Minor or whatever, the next thing I put out is back to work kind of thing, it would be so weird, it would be crazy and tone deaf and not address everything in between.
“When I listen to some albums – I’ll refrain from naming anything – that were created by groups who have lost a member, it is kind of weird to me that they don’t really just directly address what happened. I felt like that’s my gut (instinct), that’s the way that I have to do it.”
On making music being a cathartic experience:
“It felt like the right thing to do, also just like sitting and playing an instrument, if you just sit down and play a guitar or sit down and play a piano with no words or you’re not playing a song, just picking out notes… even playing that y’know… if you studied playing classical piano you play some Beethoven, you play some whatever. There’s something about that that calms my mind, it puts me into a lower more reflective gear and it actually helps me think better. So that was helpful on its own. Separating out the writing process where I was writing lyrics and things, which was also helpful, just the idea of sitting and playing an instrument was its own kind of helpful that was different from the other.”
On music helping the healing process:
“Of course, yeah. I just talked about the musical meditative process, less analytical, for me if I’m just jamming on a guitar that’s not analytical there’s no logic to it so much. But on the other hand, the lyric writing process was also cathartic in a more intellectual kind of way – and emotional – but together. So here’s why, I would write something and say ‘this is how I feel’ and I would write the lyrics and I would look at the song and listen to it and if it was bullshit, if it was untrue or if I was kind like of fibbing myself a little bit then I’d listen to it and it would sound wrong, I noticed that right away that I would listen to the song and I would go ‘this part just sounds like I don’t believe me, I don’t believe this part.’ At first, I thought it was just because I’d said the wrong words or the flow of the notes weren’t good or something but I realised almost always that it was because I was kidding myself. I was believing a thing that wasn’t actually true. So, then I went into the lyrics and said ‘ok, if I’m kinda full of it and I was saying things this way but that’s not true and the truth is actually this’, I always came (back) with a way better lyric because I figured out my own crap.”
On making things up as he goes along:
“That’s kind of almost like a theme of everything that I’m doing right now. Usually with an album I finish it and when I talk to people about it it’s looking back at a thing that’s done and now we’re going to go tour and present the thing that’s done. This album to me feels like something else, it feels like the first step in a journey and the journey is unchartered and it’s undefined and I’m just gonna kind of do a walkabout and figure it out. I know I’m booking shows, I’m gonna like not show up to my shows, but at the shows I don’t know if I end up playing more songs that I plan to then great, if I end up fewer because I want to talk and tell stories then great. If it ends up being silly and we want to tell jokes and screw around, I don’t know, great. When I’m done with that if I end up wanting to get together with another artist and just make songs with them, or go and meet up with some of the guys in the band and do that, it’s all open, it’s all on the table.”
On the positivity expressed on the end of the album:
“It’s hopeful and aware. I felt like at the end of it, I struggled for a moment… not struggled but I just… when you’re making something I tend to be critical of it to see if there’s something I can make better. I was listening to it going ‘does it have the right amount of hope and the right tone?’ And there’s still some complexity to the end, to the last couple of songs. Things aren’t perfect but that’s ok.
“I’ve said this about some of our other records and it’s true for this one as well, that I’ve never been like the kind of artist that is on a straight path that one thing is going to lead to the next and that’s going to lead to the next. Sonically and stylistically from album to album sometimes the jumps can be dramatic and not make any sense and that’s because I come from a visual art background, that’s what I grew up doing and loving and going to see art shows. I love (Takashi) Murakami for example so one show you go see Murakami and it’s large format prints of his characters and it’s clean and it looks like anime and it’s all of that and the next time you show up and it’s hypersexualised sculptures, no paintings. It might as well be another artist. Next time you show up it’s very grimy, these enormous wall size pieces that look like they’re decaying and falling apart. That’s what I like about his work and that’s also what I like to do. When I have a concept for a body of work, I just kind go all in. This one I didn’t really have a concept for it, I had a concept of what I was living through and just tried to capture that the best I could and we’ll see what the next one is. I can’t imagine I’m gonna do this again because I’m not in the same place today as I was nine months ago.”
On how playing solo is different to Linkin Park:
“I’m loving doing shows, it’s surprising because going into it I thought it would be really hard. It was (tough) and occasionally it hits me like ‘oh God this is like so different, this is not the way I want to do a show, I want to have the other thing’. Part of it is because at our best with the band, it’s a group of friends against the world. We could be playing crowds that loved us, we could be playing crowds that were screaming and throwing things and we would turn them like (that was a) regular occurrence back in the beginning that people would show up thinking they were there for- I don’t say this to disparage the band, I just say it because it’s what happened – they’d come to scream and throw things at Crazy Town and then we’d go on stage and they’d have that same negative energy and we’d manage to get them on our side. That kind of a feeling is obviously very satisfying and it’s hard work but it’s fun, and I did that with Chester and the guys. (Chester) had such a magical and like one of a kind instrument, you could give him nearly any kind of reference – maybe not any but so many different singers – he could imitate them and it would sound so close. It could sound just like what you were trying to get him to do. We’re writing a song and he sings it and I go ‘it sounds a little too Dave Gahan, give it some more Adele soulfulness’ and he’d do it and you’re like ‘yes! Now it’s like ok I got that but I don’t like it as much, can you do it a bit more Scott Weiland’ and he’d do it. And he could do all these different things and for me as a writer that’s such a powerful pair right. Yeah, so I’ll miss that.”
On the memories of Chester always being there:
“Yeah the songs are the songs. We have all those recordings. I’m much more… I’ve really come to a nice place of like celebrating what that was and how great really as a fan and a friend of his we got a lot of good music out of it and a lot of good memories. And so, when I get on stage now I’m more at peace with that, like it’s like I can go out on a stage and it’s just my show and I can do what I want with it. If I want to make it terrible and the fans run away screaming and saying how awful it was, I can do that if I want. In my head each show is very different still, I’m really experimenting with how to present it, how to get the energy just right. I want the show to be fun, it should be fun and not be all about heavy negative stuff. There are moments for tributes in the show but most of the show is about catharsis and music and have a positive good time that is more meaningful than your average show. I want you to walk away feeling like ‘wow, that did something for me.’
On his future plans:
“Yeah it’s day-by-day. Still putting shows together and announcing those and, as I said, very active on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook, doing a lot of… I feel like the story of the album, we’ve talked about it being like a diary, well the diary now just continues on like everyday stuff. Things are happening all the time and I’m sharing those as I go and the fans are playing a role, they’re interacting, they get to tell their own version and their own side of the story too.”