Former Health Secretary Sajid Javid speaking at Covid Inquiry
He said 'Dominic Cummings "sought to act as a prime minister in all but name"
Sajid Javid has told the Covid-19 Inquiry there was an "unusual" decision-making structure in No 10 in early 2020.
Mr Javid was asked by inquiry counsel Joanne Cecil about a line in his witness statement that said Dominic Cummings, who was chief adviser to Boris Johnson, "sought to act as a prime minister in all but name".
He replied:
"That's how things seemed to be working at the time."
He said it was not unusual for his private office to get a request from the prime minister's office or No 10, but found a lot of the requests were not coming from Mr Johnson "once probed".
"They might be anything from a request for information, request for detail, but also for policy change, or policy preference," he added.
"On probing further, they would be coming from Mr Cummings."
Mr Javid said he would eventually see the prime minister and talk with him, both formally and informally, asking "I heard that you wanted this or you wanted that", but Mr Johnson "would sometimes just not even know that that request had come in his name".
He cites an example of when he was working on the budget in January and February 2020.
"I was getting a lot of requests relating to the budget, which on probing were coming directly from Mr Cummings and not the prime minister, and it's not something I would have expected," Mr Javid told the inquiry.
"Although that was the first time I'd served as chancellor, I had been in the Treasury as both economic secretary and the financial secretary under George Osborne when he was chancellor. So, I had a bit of a sense about how I would have expected things to work and this was very unusual."
Sajid Javid resigned as chancellor in February 2020 after feeling that then prime minister Boris Johnson was "not in charge" and chief adviser Dominic Cummings was "running the government", the Covid-19 Inquiry has heard.
The probe was shown a witness statement submitted by Mr Javid.
It said:
"I resigned in February 2020 before the pandemic in large measure because of the actions of Mr Dominic Cummings, who was in post at the time.
"I would say during my time as chancellor I considered he sought to act as the prime minister in all but name and he tried to make all key decisions within No 10 - not the prime minister.
"I felt that the elected prime minister was not in charge of what was happening in his name and was largely content with Mr Cummings running the Government.
"I did not think that was right and that was why I ultimately resigned."
Former health secretary Sajid Javid has said the cabinet in place at the start of the Covid pandemic was "designed" to place Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson as "decision-makers" with a view to "centralise power" in Downing Street.
Asked about the statement, Mr Javid said:
"The reason I've said this in my statement is because when this cabinet was put in place, and although there was some minor changes I think right after the general election, this cabinet was essentially the cabinet that was put in place in July 2019 by the new prime minister Boris Johnson.
"Obviously there was no expectation or even any thought towards a future crisis of this proportion and I think the focus was on the commitment of the new prime minister to deliver on the Brexit commitments to take the UK out of the European Union.
"I think sort of one of the primary considerations was to have a cabinet put together that would support the prime minister in that process. And that was largely the same cabinet that was in place."
He described his time of health secretary as the "most intense period of decision-making " in his career.
Sajid Javid has said he hopes lessons are learned from Covid-19 so we are "much better prepared" for future pandemics.
Ahead of giving evidence to the Covid-19 Inquiry on Wednesday, Mr Javid, who served as health secretary from June 2021 to July 2022, said:
"May I just say, first of all, thank you for the opportunity of appearing in front of the inquiry, I fully support the work of the inquiry.
"The impact of the pandemic was, of course, unprecedented in our country and across the world.
"Sadly, many people lost their lives and there are many of their loved ones that are still grieving. I know some of them are here today as well.
"I will perhaps probably never fully understand the scale of their grief.
"But I sincerely hope that this inquiry gets to the bottom of what happened in our country at the time and that, as a country, we learn lessons from it so that if there is another time we are just so much better prepared."
The value of social care, scientists and data should be better recognised following the Covid-19 pandemic, according to Professor Dame Jenny Harries.
Dame Jenny, who is now chief executive of the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA), was asked by Covid-19 Inquiry chairwoman Baroness Heather Hallett if she had "thought of a list of lessons" from the crisis.
She replied:
"One is very much around data, one is around science and the value of scientists, and the third one is inevitably, you will see, around social care.
"I don't think we can have a responsive health and wellbeing system if the value of social care is not recognised.
"As I look at forward planning for pandemics, the very same frail individuals who are sitting in residential care settings now, or learning disabled who, wherever they may be in the community, are the same people I need to reach each time there is an infectious disease incident.
"So, that should be much better planned for on a systematic basis."
She also said there was a "number of reasons why data appeared to flow slowly" during the pandemic.
"There should definitely be a transparency of data. But we also need to engender trust, I think, in people sharing data."
Dame Jenny added that UKHSA scientists "are just not recognised".
In an email to a Department of Health and Social Care civil servant, Professor Dame Jenny Harries said:
"Whilst the prospect is perhaps what none of us would wish to plan for, I believe the reality will be that we will need to discharge Covid-19 positive patients into residential care settings for the reason you have noted.
"This will be entirely clinically appropriate because the NHS will triage those to retain in acute settings who can benefit from that sector's care.
"The numbers of people with disease will rise sharply within a fairly short timeframe and I suspect make this fairly normal practice and more acceptable, but I do recognise that families and care homes will not welcome this in the initial phase."
Questioned about this email at the Covid Inquiry, Prof Dame Jenny said it "sounds awful" but was intended to provide "a very, very high level view" of what would happen if there was an "enormous explosion of cases".
She said:
"It was a very bleak picture because I think the reality was this isn't an invitation to be discharging Covid patients, it's actually a reality that says if hospitals overflow ... those who are physically well to go will go."